Ant Middleton
When WE drew up a list of dream names for the High Performance Podcast, Ant Middleton was right at the top of that list.
An accomplished military career that includes the coveted King’s Badge as a Royal Marine, before joining the Special Boat Service - Ant’s whole career epitomises high performance. He is now best known as the Chief Instructor for Channel 4’s hit show, 'SAS : Who Dares Wins', but is also a best-selling author, motivational speaker and tours the UK with his ‘Mind Over Muscle’ brand.
Listen to Ant share his stories and secrets to his high-performing mindset. Give this your time, hear him out, and you won’t regret it!
TRANSCRIPT
JAKE: You’re listening to High Performance, and this is what we’ve got lined up today. “Code Red aggression – I’ve gone into a door, burst into that door, straight away gone into the room, you know, finger on trigger, and I’ve seen women and children. You know, and that’s when, again, this is another prominent point in my life that I remember, that I knew that I wasn’t a believable weapon. I knew that my emotional intelligence was really really high because straightaway when I saw it, boom, finger off trigger. How am I going to protect these women? How am I going to protect these children? Boom, boom boom. Then I flick straight back into the next room, and it would be a fire fight again.” It’s going to be good, isn’t it? But before we get going with the latest episode, a quick word for our partner Lotus Cars. As I’m sure you know by now, I love the fact that the cars are still hand built in the county of Norfolk that I call home. I love the fact that F1 DNA still runs through the cars they produce today. And if they’re good enough for Ayrton Senna and James Bond they’re good enough for Jake Humphrey. Anyway, Lotus have got huge plans for 2020, a bit like this podcast, so after you’ve listened to this check out lotuscars.com or find them across social media. Anyway, Lotus, we love you. On with the pod.
JAKE: Hi there, I’m Jake Humphrey. You’re listening to High Performance, the podcast that delves into the minds of some of the most successful athletes, visionaries, entrepreneurs and artists on the planet, and aims to unlock the very secrets of their success. As ever, I’m not flying solo. Damian Hughes is with us today. Safe to say, you don’t want to annoy today’s guest, right?
DAMIAN: I’m treading very, very carefully, Jake.
JAKE: What are you most looking forward to finding out in the next little while?
DAMIAN: I’m really interested on this idea of who tells you the truth, beyond yourself. Who really tells you the truth? And I think our next guest is going to give us some real fascinating insights on that.
JAKE: I think you’re right. Because I think he’s a man who certainly tells himself the truth. As far as I’m concerned our guest is the epitome of high performance – a military career stretching back to his teens, the coveted King’s Badge when he passed out as a Royal Marine before becoming a point man and a sniper in the Special Forces. He’s now a TV presenter, public speaker, author – he even has his own brand Bergamot and Amber body wash. Have you got your own brand body wash?
DAMIAN: No, not quite.
JAKE: You haven’t made it in life. Only when you’ve got your body wash have you made it in life. Please welcome to High Performance, Anthony Middleton! Anthony, nice to have you with us.
ANT: You know when you’ve made it. You know you’ve made it when you’ve got a body wash, right. And I’ve also got a beard balm as well.
JAKE: Have you? Do you wash with your own body wash?
ANT: Of course.
JAKE: So you’re in the shower in the morning…
ANT: It smells nice. I promise you. I did have quite a lot of input in it actually to be fair. So I made sure it smelt good, and it smelt manly.
JAKE: I love it. What is your definition, Anthony, of high performance?
ANT: A self-belief. It’s key to everything in life I think. That comes with brutal honesty of oneself. You have to honest with yourself. But self-belief only comes through realising where your boundaries are, where your limitations are – suffering, hardship. It’s one of those where failure – believe it or not – again I don’t want to sound too cliché – failure is the key to self-belief. Because if you can fail and get back up and re-attack, and fail and get back up and re-attack, but learn something every single time from that experience, you will eventually get there if you believe in it enough. And then once you start to get there, start to realise actually I’m a lot more resilient than I thought I was, self-belief starts to kick in. And once you now ‘self-belief’, it almost up to a point where it hits that ego line – that’s when you achieve amazing things. And that’s when not much phases you, because you genuinely believe that you can achieve anything that you put your hand to. Now, I believe that if a human has done it in life, then I can achieve it, whether it’s climbing to the top of the world, whether it’s running a hundred metres, you know, under 10 seconds, you know, I genuinely believe that if I train hard enough and I put the time and effort into it that I could achieve that.
JAKE: Because in your book ‘The Fear Bubble’, you talk about people coming up to you saying “Oh, you’ve changed”.
ANT: Yep.
JAKE: And then you say, “Yer, I have, because I’m not the person I was when you know me before. And I’m delighted I’m that person. And sadly you are the same person.” I am interested to know, the Ant Middleton sitting in front of us now – are you now the product of hundreds and hundreds of little tiny moments? Or was there one explosion in your head when you went “That is the key. The door has just been opened. I see the light. There is the answer.”
ANT: No, it’s loads of little things that accumulate.
JAKE: Do you know when it first started? Because I bet at 16 if I’d have asked you that same question, you probably would have given me a completely different answer to high performance.
ANT: Yer, if you’d have told me where I was today when I was 16, I would have just laughed it off. You know, I was just a young 16 year old that joined the military. You know, I had a very bad military career, ie experience, for my first 4 or 5 years, to the point where I left the army, and then rejoined the Marines a couple of years later. It was just something that I believe that I was good at, that I could do, and I just chipped away at it.
JAKE: So why weren’t you ‘high performance’ in those early military years?
ANT: I was, but I didn’t fit in. I wasn’t a team player, you know. I always wanted to be the best at everything. And when I was the best at stuff - anything that I put my hand to, I was the best at – I’d be quite cocky and arrogant about it. And what you do, you isolate yourself. And then, you know obviously being in the military, a team player is what it’s all about. And you can only get so far by yourself. And that’s when I left the army, and I thought to myself, do know what, I’ve smashed the beginning of my army career. The reason I didn’t get on well was because people were below me. I was better than everyone else. But what that does, you sort of hit a ceiling. You hit a plateau where you just like “where else is there to go?”, and you actually need people around you to get you to that next level. And it was just a case of “I enjoyed what I’d done”. I knew I was good at it, but something wasn’t sitting right. And it was that moment of clarity I had as a youngster – this was a moment of say my first stepping stone towards becoming an elite athlete, or an elite individual, however you want to look at it. I was at the Job Centre. And I left the army and I thought to myself “right, I’m going to go in and they’re going to look at my report, and my report was exemplary, I’m going to get whatever job I want”. And I went in there, and I left there without a job. And I remember walking down the steps to the job centre when I was 22, and I sat down on the steps, and I thought to myself “Wow, how are you here, with everything that you’ve achieved, and everything that you’ve done, and that you know you’re capable of! How are you sat on the steps of a Job Centre – jobless?” And I flipped that mirror on myself. It was the first time in my life that I was brutally honest with myself, and I just concentrated on all my negatives and insecurities. And it was like “Right, Ant, you’re a big-headed little twat, that’s why you’re sat on these steps. You’re not a team player. Your ego has, you know, way over the line now, from extreme confidence to ego…
DAMIAN: Surely you’d been told this when you were in the army? Your colleague had been going “Listen, you’re a dick!”
ANT: Yeah, but you don’t listen to it. You just like “Yeah, I’m a dick, but I’m always at the front of the runs, aren’t I?”
DAMIAN: When I was reading your book, that very first day in the military when you did that run? And you spoke about the idea that you’d put yourself at the front and you almost just went balls out, and didn’t stop until you came first. And it seems to me that just running was something you were doing for a long time. You were running away from something.
ANT: Yeah, I joined the military to, to. I was always self-sufficient. I always wanted to stand on my own two feet. I always excelled at what I’d done. But then I got bored of it. And then when I got bored of something I put my hand at something else. I’d excel at that then I’d get bored of it. I could have been a xxx. Got bored of it, and just didn’t enjoy doing it. And then I went into athletics, again you know I got bored of it. And it just gave me a sense of confidence. And I didn’t realise it until later, but it gave me this understanding that if I put my mind to something that I really enjoyed it became obsessive to me. You know, I had this obsessive sort of addiction to perfecting it, to controlling it, to making it work for me, you know. So as I sort of chipped away throughout my childhood you know football, yeah, I could show you all the trophies, you know, everything I’ve got – athletics the same. You know, then the military – best recruit, best PT – by the age of 16. It’s just like, no, this is almost too easy. Then when I left the military and joined the Marines, King’s Badge man, and then you know, I made my way up to pass selection pass selection first time, all these small little events that happen, they become bigger and bigger. Almost confirming what you already know, but that can be a very dangerous thing to do. Cos, the moment you start confirming that you’re the best at everything, that when it starts trickling on. You know, your extreme confidence starts biting you in the arse because your ego takes prominent place.
DAMIAN: But does that not make you a dangerous soldier, though, with that sense of ego?
ANT: No, because I’ve never, when it comes to that side of things, and I talk about emotions, you know I’m a very emotionally connected individual. There’s a danger of, you know, people say you thinking that you’re better, never when I went into combat, into war, did I ever think that I’d get shot. Never ever thought there was a soldier on that battlefield that was better than me. Never in a million years. But that’s why I always got on that helicopter on the way home. That’s why I’m here today. But there is this side to me, and I talk about this respect for this polite, this compassionate side to me, you know that I have, you know. I know what’s right, and I know what’s wrong, you know. And again, it teeters on that edge of expertise where I might be going to get it horribly wrong or horribly right. But I’m so emotionally connected that I get it right every single time. So, for example, I’ve been into a fire fight where I’ve breached a compound, and the whole place has erupted, and we’ve done what we needed to do in the compound, and then from that fire fight, code red aggression, I’ve gone into a door, burst into that door, straight away gone the room, you know, finger on trigger, and I’ve seen women and children, you know. And again, it’s another prominent point in my life that I remember, that I knew I wasn’t a believable weapon. I knew that my emotional intelligence was really, really high because straight away when I saw it, boom, finger off trigger. How am I going to protect these women? How am I going to protect these children? Boom, boom, boom. Then I flick straight back into the next room, and it would be a f***ing fire fight again. But then I’d get straight back into that mode of “Right well, these…” It’s flicking between the two. There’s no sort of middle ground with me.
DAMIAN: Where did that develop, then, that emotional intelligence?
ANT: Erm, from a child. You know, my father passed away when I was five years old. And I talk about finding a positive in every negative, and as life has gone on I’ve found so my positives in my father’s death. He died when I was five years old, and within a couple of weeks a step father came into play, and we up and moved to France, you know, within 6 months. So obviously something had been going on before. But the magnitude of the situation was so overwhelming at that age. You can imagine, at this stage I think I was six – in France, new man in my life, within 6 … it’s like, what the hell is going on? But what that allowed me to do, I remember just thinking, you know, almost the situation being so overwhelming that I literally just ignored it and cut it out of my life. And the thing that I could understand at six years old was what I could control was myself. So I started self-reflecting.
DAMIAN: At six?
ANT: At six.
DAMIAN: Wow!
ANT: I always used to self-reflect, self-reflect, self-reflect “Why am I feeling like this?
JAKE: Do you think that came from your Dad’s death?
ANT: One million percent.
JAKE: So, when I asked you earlier your high performance mindset “Is it hundreds of little things, or is it one moment?”
ANT: Yeah…
JAKE: Maybe, Anthony, it was the moment your Dad died.
ANT: Yeah, when you look back on things like that in a way like that, yeah, it was. But it’s just a sequence of events that has just fortified that. You know, the death of my father was that sort of point to the earliest memory where I can just remember sort of having this out of body experience of … I couldn’t even make sense of the world, you know what I mean. Because you know, different language, different school, really isolated, different father, different … It was just like, phwoo. And I can remember having quite a good childhood, even though it was a different childhood. I remember having quite a good childhood because all I had to do was think about myself, and that’s why I talk about being someone that’s self-sufficient. I always wanted to stand on my own two feet, always wanted to do… because I could be in control of that.
JAKE: Were you being loved by your Mam and your step Dad at that point?
ANT: Yeah, yeah, that wasn’t … you know, don’t get me wrong. The step father was, you know, he ruled with an iron fist. But they all did back then. So I don’t begrudge any of that, and it toughened me up as a lad. But, you know, this hard exterior that you build, you know, it’s one of those where I believe that you’re set in stone from quite a young age, and that’s who you are.
DAMIAN: But then, who would you say knows the real Ant? So ultimately there’ll be two or three people I imagine in your life that know when you take all that armour and that different person …
ANT: No not one, apart from myself.
JAKE: Hold on, I can’t let that go. Not your wife?
ANT: No.
JAKE: Not your Mum?
ANT: No, no, I don’t talk to my Mum. My wife knows probably 80, 85%.
JAKE: So what does she not know?
ANT: I don’t allow anyone to ever enter that space.
JAKE: Why not?
ANT: Cos, my space… It’s one of those where, you know, there’s stuff that you must keep, you know, that you must keep to yourself. There’s thought processes that you must, you must manage. It’s one of those, where if you spoke out, if you spoke out loud with your thought process, or you let people in to a certain level of emotion, then there’s nothing positive that’s going to come out of it. So why do it? And I’m very much like that, you know. I’m a very, very positive, positive thinker. It’s only cos I’ve dealt with so much negativity in my life that the levels of negativity that I’ve witnessed done and been exposed to – if you, yeah, if you don’t think positively in those situations then probably wouldn’t be here today. I’d probably be in a different, different head space, I’d probably be in a different, you know, different career. Again, it’s just about knowing yourself as well. I mean that’s to a point where you do know yourself, where you … Well this is what people need to know. This is what people don’t need to know. This is what I never let out of my locker. Why? Because …
JAKE: And is there an edge of loneliness to you because you’ve not totally exposed yourself?
ANT: Yeah, I’d say I’m still a loner. You know, I’m still a loner in that type of way, you know. I’ve got a lot of acquaintances and I’ve got a lot of friends but, you know, when you talk about my social life I just tap up one of those guys or girls and go out with them. But I don’t let anyone sort of too close, if that makes sense.
DAMIAN: So it was xxx that really intrigued me that I wanted to ask you about, but I want to do this while treading very carefully. I’m lucky enough that I’ve been around lots of individual athletes that have been high performers, and what intrigues me about them is that there’s a concept in Roman times that the Emperors used to have a guy that their title was the Memento Mori – somebody that would be on your shoulder reminding you that you’re human and that you’re vulnerable, and not to get carried away with your own success. And I can see that these loners, these individual sportsmen, sometimes can get seduced by success, seduced by ego and all the trappings of everything. Who’s the guy on your shoulder saying to you “Ant, you’re being a dick. Ant, you’re getting carried away. Ant, your ego’s out of control there”.
ANT: Myself. And it’s through… I’m not scared to, to fail. I’m not scared to do that. I don’t really care what anyone thinks. I don’t really care, you know. It’s one of those where I’m not scared to take on to commit to failure.
DAMIAN: But we all have blind spots as well that sometimes lead us to trip up and fall. And, as somebody that is trained in the art of efficiency in the nature of what you do, would it not be more efficient to have one or two people that you would allow in to that orbit that could maybe help you avoid tripping up?
ANT: Yeah, but it’s almost someone telling you about yourself, you know. I believe that no-one should know yourself better than yourself. I’ve been in situations where I’ve been forced to act where I’ve been surprised at what I’m capable of, being in combat. You know, you talk about that fight or flight mode, or you talk about having to do what you need to do to get the job done, and it’s just like, that was remarkably easy. Then it just allows me to put myself into this position where, yeah, I want to be the first man through the door.
DAMIAN: Does that bother you?
ANT: I wanna be, I wanna be this … this mine-sweeping, this mine field, “Who wants to do it?” Yeah, I do. You know, I remember the f***ing, do the first thing when someone said, “Ant, there’s probably about a kilometre of minefield to … What team wants to do it?” And I put my hand up straightaway. And I thought to myself “F***ing hell, why did I do that?” And when I got on the ground, it’s just like I was loving f***ing mine-sweeping knowing that this, you know what I mean… It was just these are the things that I didn’t realise that I was capable of until I put myself in those situations, and sometimes I put myself in these situations thinking “What have you done, Ant? This is…” But then I think to my… that when it’s done I’m like “I’m so glad I’ve done that, you know. I’m so glad I was first man on the xxx, I’m so glad that I went through that. And then I realise how I can deal with it. And I see the effects it has on some other people. And it’s not a case for me going “Let me go in. I’m better than you.” I’m like. They say “No”. I’ll probably deal with this better than you.
JAKE: Do you go through that and then think “Am I normal?” Let’s say you’ve killed someone and five minutes later you’re having a game of cards – you feel fine. Other soldiers might have to go and decompress, and go for counselling – whatever they do. You, sounds like you don’t need to do that. And I wonder whether you’re totally comfy with that. Or whether you think “Am I?” I remember going through a period where I thought I was mentally ill when I was younger, and went to counselling. It was a good thing to do. I was just sort of having a weird period as a teenager. I think you’ve probably never gone there, have you? You’ve never?
ANT: Why would you talk to someone about something’s going on in your head? And, again, you’ll only tell yourself, you’ll only be as honest and open with yourself than you wanna be.
DAMIAN: xxx Ant. Cos, I think there’s something about – it’s the Einstein quote that the mindset that creates a problem can’t always be the mindset that solves the problem. And somebody else being able to come in with an alternative view might help you get there quicker. I agree with you that you’ve still got to unlock it.
ANT: Yeah, yeah, probably help you get there quicker, but, you know, sometimes there’s not a problem. People make a problem out of it. And you’re just like, “I’m perfectly fine with it”. It’s almost, this day and age, where it’s not OK to be OK.
DAMIAN: Yep.
ANT: And people say to me “Ant, you’ve been through some… How you not messed up?” Because I’m not. And again my sympathy goes out to – I’ve seen people that suffer from P… - and it’s horrendous. And, you know, I’ve got massive sympathy for that. I’ve got friends, good friends, that suffer from it, but you know I don’t, and you know, “Should I, should I?” You know, you almost, people …
DAMIAN: So do you regard those people, like? How do you perceive somebody that suffering that’s suffering from PTSD, then? Do you regard that as their own fault, that they’re unable to process that experience?
ANT: No, yeah, I just um, I think a key one is, is, is acknowledging the situation for what it is. You know, it’s like, if someone’s died, well guess what, they’re dead. You know, acknowledge that it is like there’s nothing you can do about that. You can put all the negativity, yeah, you go through the process of mourning, acceptance, blah, blah, blah. There’s stepping stones to get you to where you need to be. But it’s just, you know, people ask themselves questions about what should happen if they would have/should have … That’s not the real world. And that world does not exist. Why would you even dip into that world? It’s like acknowledge… What’s the one thing I can’t do? Is bring that per… What’s the one thing…? Change my actions to bring that per… What’s the one thing? I can’t rewind time. I can’t …
JAKE: That is how 99% of minds operate. Then they allow themselves to go there all the time.
DAMIAN: If you go back to the example of you sweeping the minefield – there’s a kilometre of minefield ahead of you. At what stage would you think about your wife and children, of, “If I make a mistake, if I trip up here and get this wrong”?
ANT: I wouldn’t.
DAMIAN: You compartmentalise that.
ANT: I still do that nowadays, you know. When I’m at work, I’m at work, unless my children are in hospital and there’s something of an emergency, then don’t bring in any distractions – one or two or three or five percent distractions into my work. Let me focus 100% on my work because that way I would achieve what I need to achieve. And also, when it does go wrong, OK, I can’t blame that one or two percent or three percent. I’ve only got one person to look at, and that’s myself. No excuses. I don’t allow any of those distractions to come into my life, into my work, because ultimately that’s what happens with people. For if I did get it right or wrong, if I make the right decision or the wrong decision, well guess what, I can take ownership of that, because there’s no distra… And then once you take ownership of it you can process what’s gone wrong. Then you can execute what needs to be done, and move on. Right. But it’s like the more distractions you have in your life, the more you know excuses that you have to pin stuff to, then the more you’re gonna think negatively, the more you’re gonna, you know, you’re gonna trick yourself, the more you’re gonna fool yourself. Does that make sense?
JAKE: It makes total sense.
ANT: It’s my elite mindset of “I focus on myself. What do I need to change?”
DAMIAN: But my question then is around before you make that commitment to go in and do whatever it is you’re gonna face, is “At what stage before you make that commitment do you think, you know, I’m a different person, I’m evolving all the time, and I’m now a father, I’m now a husband, and therefore I probably won’t put myself into that situation that might end up with my early demise?” So how do you square that circle?
ANT: Well now I’m now getting better and better at that. The thing that really sort of pushed home was Everest. You know, when I done Everest. I went up during a storm, and I can remember half way through once I’d done my rotations the camera man said, “Ant, you’re making it look too easy. There’s never been … above 6,000 metres before…”. And then, low and behold this storm comes in. I’m like, “We’re going out during this storm”. “No, no, listen, I’ve said it. You can’t go up during the storms.” It’s like, I’m like, “No, listen, follow me up during the storm”.
JAKE: What was that about? I’ve read your book about that. Why in the storm? Why not the next day?
ANT: Why not? Because, well, hundreds of people have stood on the summit of Mount Everest on a nice sunny day. I don't want to take the easy option. Why would I want to, I want to stand on the summit of the world on a nice sunny day?
JAKE: Well, the answer is because one day you might find the limit, and the limit might be death.
ANT: Yeah. But I haven't found that yet, so …
JAKE: What’s your wife’s name?
ANT: Emily
JAKE: So does Emily say? Come on, man, you’ve got kids, you need to think about.
DAMIAN: I get that you've driven yourself relentlessly and remorselessly, but then you've chosen to go into team environments, whether it was in the military… so you're an elite individual going into a team environment where not everybody does share the same mentality. And I'd class, even your family to like go and have a family with Emily is then you become a team player. So where's that evolution happened for you?
ANT: Yeah, that's … uh, I was a very selfish person that had my priorities wrong. You know, when I was in the military, I'll prioritized the military. My family and children came second.
JAKE: Do you now feel that you are good enough, right, without having to validate yourself with achievements?
ANT: Um, yeah, no, I'm, I'm definitely
JAKE: Well if you achieve nothing else for the next 50 years - I know you're the kind of guy that likes to achieve stuff - would you still be a content person?
ANT: No, I've, I've realized I'm more more, um, I'd probably say over the last three or four years, the importance of, of a team especially, um, when I would say your body starts to sort of suffer a bit more. But I'm not worried about that, but I obviously obviously acknowledge it. Even when I was at my most fittest in, in the special forces, you know, you have to be in an athlete plus standard of fitness to pass selection - fact. My mind has always seemed fitter, has always seemed to be the driving force of, I never no, I never saw myself as an athlete even though I was at that status. But it was cos my mind was always, always evolving. Um, but now that, I’m in a completely different career, completely different headspace, and I realized, you know, what I used to do wasn't normal. It's one of those where jumped in the deep end, with dive boots on and I'm having to rely on my team now to keep my head above water, because I've still got that, that mindset and that sort of um, way of, you know, just tackle everything head on, just be honest and say your now xxx . I don’t quite work like that. People do appreciate that, but this day and age in society, you've got to, uh, you've got to let us take lead on it. That's what I've struggled with the last couple of years is to really let go of of certain bows of certain strings on my bow, and go, do you know what, you can take charge of that. You can take … But to a point where I’m still even a nightmare about it. You know, I still crawl up that rope and put my head up and go, right, you’re managing this career.
JAKE: What are you worried about then? What do you not…
ANT: No, I am not worried about anything. I just like things done properly. You know, I like to see things done properly. I like to be transparent about things. And I like to be honest about things. And a sad state of affairs that we're finding ourselves in this day and age, is honesty is classed as bullying. All right? So you're being honest and all of a sudden you can't say that, Ant, because you’re being …
JAKE: Is it how you deliver the honesty, though? Or do you think we’re in a place now where just telling someone I disagree with you is …
ANT: No, not even telling someone, I’m not even telling someone I … listen you’re useless at your job. I suggest you find another job. And again this is the way society goes. And I talk, talk about it, you know. I’ve a prime example, of levels of standards that are just dropping more and more and more because nowadays, you know, rather than messing up at work and me for example, pulling it into the office and going, “Bloody hell, that was horrendous. What were you thinking of? You know, you've got one more chance. If not, you're out the door.” Nowadays, I bring them in and go, you know, “You could have, you could have done better. It was okay. It was okay, but you could have done better. Um, you know, maybe next time think you know”. All this mollycoddling and pampering, but all the sudden what that does, it engages your brain where you know you haven't been up to scratch or you know that you, you know that you didn't do that correctly, or your standards have dropped. But then people are going, no, it's okay. You know, don't worry about it. Just make sure you tackle it in this way. Just talk about it. Let's go through it. Of a sudden when you get multiple people like that that tell you that you go, “Oh, why it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Maybe that was okay.” You know, even though you're lying to yourself, right. You know, no, that was shit. I should have done a lot better. But people are saying, “Actually, it's not too bad, you know, you know, you didn't so much fail”. But yeah, you did fail. And then what you do you, your standards drop and drop and drop and drop and drop and drop and drop and drop to a, to a level that's not acceptable and then all of a sudden someone comes in and tells you, you get what happens, you become offended You start to pass the blame. There’s this is whole, it's a whole knock on effect to not being honest and when I'm talking about being honest, I'm talking about, yeah, there's a way of saying it, but being brutally honest, black and white, was it, was it? Did you achieve what? No. Why didn't you achieve it? Because your performance was horrendous.
JAKE: You see, I see all of that on a weekly basis in the world that I exist in that elite sports world. That is still how that world works. If you're not good enough to make the Arsenal first team, you are out of the door. If you're a goalkeeper and the ball goes through your legs, you are not just criticized by the manager and the players, but everyone around you. And it's one of these things that I don't think that we give elite individuals the credit that they deserve. I think…
ANT: Oh 100%
JAKE: Everyone would love to be a professional footballer, a professional formula one driver, erm, a special forces soldier. I honestly believe 99.9% of people could not push themselves to the limits you need to go to to get there. xxx these lazy people say, right, you’ve probably not trained one day in your life as hard as he's trained every single day to play professional sport. And we all sit and we all criticize happily, don't we, and think everyone's useless? But very few people really can get themselves into that elite space, I think.
ANT: And it’s a mindset. It's an elite mindset and do you know what? I don't like to use that word elite because elite for me is just doing the basics to a high standard consistently, right. And you try doing the basics to a high standard consistently. That’s very, very hard to…
JAKE: Can anyone be a high performance person?
ANT: Yeah, they can. I, I genuinely believe that. But it's just, it's just the mindset that that lacks is like you can train, I could go, away, I could go away right now. I could give you a training program, to go away train for a year. You could probably be, you know, if you had the time and money, you can probably be the fittest man on earth.
DAMIAN: I would also argue that we all bring a certain base level of talent to the table. So.
ANT: Absolutely.
DAMIAN: So, say I could run the 100 metres in 12 seconds and I believe I could train and I could get better from that base level of talent that I have, but I don't believe that I could match up against the hundred metres Olympic finalists.
ANT: I know, but it’s in, it's one of those, um. I haven’t sprinted for about 22 years. And the first sprint I done with USN was against a sprinter. I got 12 seconds. And again, again, it go, goes down to mindset on how you absorb, how you learn the techniques. It's like, once I engulf myself into something, you know, I, I'm obsessed with it. You know, like people, when I, you know, when I left the, uh, Special Forces, you know, I've always been in trouble. Now when I go out drinking, you know, when I, you see, you know, always never be the bully, but I always found myself getting in trouble and they used to say, “Ant, you're one of these annoying people that are good at everything, but you're also good at getting in trouble.” It’s because, you know, when I went out, someone started a fight with my mate. It’d just be phoow. Drinking wouldn't matter anymore. It’d just be like, right, we need to sort this situation out. And it's like, you know, so. I've got an addictive personality, but I've also seen the negative sides to that, you know. My addictive personality, has ended, I've ended up in prison. I've ended up in cells. I've ended up heavily drinking. I've ended up fighting, I've ended up, you know, it's, it's got its negative effects to it as well. I don't just think right, what I put my mind at I can achieve. It's like when I find myself in a situation that I'm enjoying and I'm no, I'm like, you know, I used to drink till the f***ing cows come home, you know, you wouldn't out-drink me, you know. I talk about a negative, you know, then all of a sudden the alcohol starts to get a grip with you, and you like, I need to reign this in, you know, being honest with yourself, like woof.
DAMIAN: So where did the self-awareness, the willingness to look at yourself and so, you know what, there’s a pattern of drinking here that’s leading me into trouble…
ANT: Do you know what? It was when I was at a funeral. So it was at a funeral for a pal in the Royal Marines. And um, obviously, you know, I say obviously, but you drink heavily in the Marines, you know, and it’s all about weekends when you’re on camp anyway. And I can remember at a funeral, being at a funeral and just asking this person where this person was that was dead. You know, I remember thinking I was about where's so and so? I they were looking at me as a complete lunatic. They were like, “What the hell are you on about?” And I’m like, “Well where is he, come on, f***ing hell? You know, he’s merely part of the group and then, and I remembered it, and I just remember saying his name and then thinking, f***, he's dead.
JAKE: So were you drunk or were you…?
ANT: Yeah, I was drunk. Yeah I was drunk. I thought to myself, wow, alcohol, you know, made me… You know, I've always been aware when I've been drinking, I've always been a… and it got to a point where I was, you know, I was start to forget or starting to, you know, be a useless drunk, shall we say, you know, well, I've always been self-aware like that. And that's, that was one of the first nights I thought, “Ant, you're drinking too much, mate, because… what the hell?” And after I said that, and I realized what I said I f***ed off. I left the party. It’s like, it’s like a whoa Ant, you need to go because you're not in control of yourself.
JAKE: See that’s the thing if you're really brutally honest with yourself. You punish yourself, I guess when you know that you've overstepped the mark.
DAMIAN: Do you still drink now?
ANT: Occasionally, yeah. No, not. I don't, I don't go and go and get smashed now. But um, it's just one of those where alcohol has, has done nothing but bring negativity to my life. And again, I've never had a problem with it, but you know, I'll drink, it'll be fine, fine, fine. Then you know, some things will happen, and it’sjust like, wow, it's just that’s due to alcohol. That’s due to me not being myself and not thinking right.
DAMIAN: So, that’s really interesting because you say you've never had a problem and yet you also attribute - that's what led you to a prison cell.
ANT: Yeah. So it's not, it's again, you know, it's holding it, you know, it's being accountable for your actions. I got into a fight and I ended up badly hurting someone, and yeah, the alcohol was to blame for my decision making, but it wasn't to blame for my actions. You know, it's like, listen, xxx to go to prison, absolutely. Will I do my time? Have I got any excuses? No. You know, and again, you know, when I went to, when I went to prison, I’d just left the military and um, I remember my, my lawyer. He was, he was rubbing his hands. He was like, he was like, “Ant, you've just left the military, haven’t you?” I was like, “Yeah”. He said, “How long ago?”. I went “Sic months ago”. He went “Brilliant. How many tours of Afghanistan?” I said “Three”. He went “Well, recent?” I went “Yeah, you know, I just got back not long ago”. He was like, “Excellent”. He's like “Ant, do you want to go to prison?” I’m like “Of course I don’t want to go to prison”. He was like, “Well, you've got PTSD” And I'm like, “What do you mean, I've got PTSD?” He said, “Ant”, he said, “If you say you got PTSD”, this his exact words, he went, “I promise you, you will not go to prison.” He said, “I’ll write a report. You'll get a slap on the wrist.” He said, “I'll guarantee you, with what you've done, your background…” He said, “You go off, you do a course”, and he said “You'll be at home with your family.” And I looked at him. I said, “I can't, I can't do that. I haven't got PTSD. I can't say that.” I said I got drunk. I said I end up in a f***ing fight, and end up hurting someone, I deserve to be in prison. Let me do my time. Um, and that’s exactly what I done. I went to prison, done with time and…
DAMIAN: How long did you do?
ANT: I got sentenced to 14 months. So I done that, yeah, done…
JAKE: And you say in your book the minute they shut the cell door, positive mindset…
ANT: Yeah, exactly. And I know the moment the hammer went down. I can remember the moment. My wife was there. And I said her, I said, I love you. I said I’ll see you soon. I was talking about priorities as being different. Now prioritize the same common denominator every single time whether it's positive or negative. One person that's always there, and it's my wife. And I'm just like, wow, listen, not only do I owe it to myself, but listen, I owe it to you.
JAKE: She's special, Ant?
ANT: And yeah, that's when I, when I, when I got out of pr…, you know, my life started turning around, you know, I start focusing my energy in on everything positive. That’s when I really made that positive and negative changes. Like, is anything positive? No. Don't do it. It, could there be a negative? Yeah. Well don't do it. You know, last five, six years I’ve cut off all my friends. I’ve cut of all, you know, I bounce between work and family, work and family, work and family. I prioritize family erm now, but also work comes very close. If one suffers, the other’s going to suffer. And I don't allow that social life to come into play because it's too much of a temptation. And what I mean by too much of a temptation, it’s like, course I want to go out and have fun, course I want to go. Is anything positive going to come out of it, necessarily? No, but that's what I love about life. It’s like I need to make them mistakes to learn. And then when I learn, I grow. When I grow, I become a better version of myself. I'm more aware, I'm wiser, I'm more, more, you know, learn more about, about myself.
JAKE: Yeah.
DAMIAN: I'm interested in, cause you're a father as well, and I'm conscious of people listening to this podcast will be sort of thinking about it from that lens. You've almost eradicated vulnerability from your life, whether that's you’ve armour-plated yourself physically or mentally, to do that. And yet your children are having to go through situations that inevitably lead to vulnerability whether it’s starting a new school or doing a new sport or a new activity. How do you help them on their journey?
ANT: I push them into doing things they don't want to do. You know, like I think we've become a nation of lazy parenting. Um, when something won't go at school, when it's come back, well it’s not your fault. It’s their fault. You know, we don't spend enough time with our children. We don't spend enough time pushing them and forcing them into stuff. You know, I forced my children to do stuff whether they like it or not, and I'm, I'm only forcing them through love and through personal development. There's nothing malicious in it. There's nothing negative in it. I’m forcing … I know you don't want to do that son, but you're going to do it. Bush, you know, whether whether I push him into climbing a ladder where… when he gets to the top of the ladder, he's like – it’s not that bad, is it? But if I didn't force you to do that, you wouldn't know what you're capable of. And swimming, you know, my son was like, pushed him into the, into the, into the shallow end. Now knowing that my wife's that side and you know, and he's like, no, no, no, boom, boom. Well Ashley. And then I jumped in there and held him in the water. I’m like, it's not that bad, is it, son? And you know, you’ve got parents that are nodding their head. And I can’t get him out the water now. xxx, you know, it’s like. And again, people say well that could've had a negative... I don't live in that world - could've, should've, would've. It didn't have a negative effect. I know what I’m doing…
JAKE: What if he wants to be something different though, like you talk in your book about, uh, getting him to do karate, gets a smack in the face and a bloody nose. Like, maybe your son just wants to be a painter, and doesn't want to be a combat like you did. And that was great for you. But your son is not you, is he?
ANT: Yeah. No, when he's, you know, it's one of those where, if I see that he's not enjoying it, then then I, you know, I won't, I won't sort of force the issue, but um, like…
JAKE: So you're not forcing them to do certain things. You're teaching them that sometimes in life the only way through it is xxx some resilience.
ANT: Yeah, you know. If I pushed him into the water and I go nothing of it, then I wouldn’t keep pushing him into the water, you know, it’s like. But I force him to do stuff just so they can go, wow, I like that or I don't mind that. And you know, some things I'll get right, some things I'll get wrong. But everything that I do is, is through love, you know, and I always say to people, do what the hell you want to do. I said, as long as is your actions aren't malicious and you and you don't go out to offend, then you're always going to offend someone. You're always going to upset a situation. Do not let those distractions come in. In your heart of hearts if you think that's the right thing to do and you don't xxx, do it and you'll find out where it's right or wrong, and if it's right, well guess what, you keep doing it. If it's wrong, change it up. But you know, for obvious, you know. And that's what I say to my children. I say, you know, stay innocent, stay pure because listen, it won't be like that your whole life and you'll soon learn what's right and what's wrong. And I'll be there to guide you through it, but I will, I will be pushing and I will be forcing you to do it or things that you don't like. And I guarantee you when you have children, you'll do the complete opposite of what I didn't like, and, you know, and the complete opposite of what you did like. And that's, that's how, that's how evolution goes on. But um, I think that we as parents have, don’t hold up to our responsibilities of being honest with our children – know, letting them know that, you know, listen there’s two sides to every story. This whole blame culture, you know, I spend - the time that I am with my children, I spend time, I sit down with them. People find it weird that I sit down, and I talk to my, you know, my son, and all of a sudden he's out in the garden and climbing the tree and just in his boxer shorts because I've gone to him, well gone on then, if you think you can feel that tough, go out there… And people are like, what's he doing? I'm like, don’t worry about him. He's fine. Now he's climbing a tree in his boxer shorts cos I just, you know, told him no, that if you set your mind to things and you know, take each step at a …, you know. And I just think a as as um, in society now we're in danger of becoming a nation of lazy parents and lazy adults, you know. Because adults are acting like children and children acting like babies. You know, it's like adults, come on. Do you know what I mean? Be an adult, you know. People are looking up to you, but lead by example. You know, it's like, yeah, the more adults I see acting like children, no wonder children, no teenager acting like babies. Of course, course it’s going in the reverse effect because it starts from the top and it trickles all the way down. You know? And fortunately we still out this generation of our granddads, who are you, who, you know, are hard and sort of resilient sort of individuals that passed onto our generation. But I think it's so important that we keep that. And again, we move it on with the times. I'm all for that 100% moving on with it. But we keep this old school resilience that have made us the people we are today.
JAKE: Listen, thank you so much for your time. Um, I'm a firm believer in people separating fault and responsibility. We constantly look at fault. We don't take responsibility. I believe in the growth mindset. Um, I hate the victim culture. And I'm, I believe that you 100% take responsibility for every single thing that happens in your life. Right?
ANT: Positive or negative.
JAKE: But you are so many miles ahead of me, it’s unbelievable. I came into thinking I've got this nailed, xxx. Geez, I've got a long journey to go. Before we got we’ve got a few quick questions that we want to just throw your way. It won't take very long. Just sort of a short, quick fire thing. Three non-negotiable behaviours that you and the people around you must buy into?
ANT: Punctuality, manners and first impressions. I think they go a long way and, you know, don't tip up in xxx order - at least be presentable.
DAMIAN: What advice would you give a teenage Ant that was just starting out?
ANT: Um, I would say “Let more people in” - just, you know, I'm, I'm figuring that out in the later years of my life, and I think I’ll be a lot more advanced if I'd allowed that to happen at a younger age. So definitely be let more people whether it's a mentor, whether it's, you know, people that generally interested in, in, in developing you. And I wish I’d have done that at an earlier age.
JAKE: Are you happy?
ANT: Extremely. Um, it's, it's strange because you know, when you, when you’re in your job, when I was in the Special Forces I thought I was made for that, um, but now I'm in this job, I believe that this is my, my belonging. This is my calling. I feel that of everything I've done in my life, this is, I’m exactly where I'm supposed to be.
DAMIAN: How important is legacy to you?
ANT: I think, you know, if can leave a solid foundation of my children to build on, which I didn't have, then we've, we've, we've done our work.
JAKE: And the final question for people listening to this, your one piece of advice for them to live a more high-performance life.
ANT: Just think positively. You know, we live in a society full of negativity. Be brutally honest with yourself. If you’re brutally honest with yourself it allows you to be brutally honest for other people. And if you find yourself in a negative situation, you cannot tackle that negative situation with a negative mindset. If you lie to yourself, you're going to live a lie.
JAKE: Damian!
DAMIAN: Jake!
JAKE: That was, that was fascinating. You know, we say that a lot, but what really stood out for me was that he has, as far as I can tell them, an absolutely rock solid, unshakable belief in his own mindset, and that’s a difficult place to get to. But I imagine if he genuinely believes everything he's just told us, it must also be a lovely place to be.
DAMIAN: Lovely and lonely.
JAKE: Yes, yeah.
DAMIAN: was the other word. I agree. That sense of that you are everything you could ever possibly need must be quite self-satisfying. But equally to look around the thing that not everybody else matches up to you must sometimes lead him to some quite lonely places I imagine.
JAKE: Cos we all, don't we, spend our time wanting to just believe in ourselves 100%. He's managed to get to that place. So when he left the room just now, did you feel jealous of him or are you glad you have your mindset?
DAMIAN: I think there was aspects of Ant that I really admired that I think I could do with a bit more of that, for example, that sort of relentless positivity would serve us all well. But there was other aspects of the ability to fit within a group, whether that's a family or a team, erm, I think he struggles with that more, and I think that sense of loneliness isn't something that I would envy. What about yourself?
JAKE: Do you know what? I actually quite like the journey of not being perfect. Part of the reason I wanted to do this podcast, right, is that I think that I'm pretty good at being positive. I spent a lot of my time talking to other people about positivity. I've spent my life around elite athletes who've only got where they've got to with genuine belief in themselves and real dedication. And I know that I'm not there yet. And I think if I was where Ant was, I might be thinking, “Phoow, well where, where next? Like, um, I’m sort have made it. You know, he believes in absolutely everything he does, whereas I quite enjoy the journey of finding out a bit more about myself and I know that I'm not perfect. And I don't think, I don't think I know a perfect person. I think he probably would see himself mentally as perfect, wouldn't he?
DAMIAN: Yeah, yeah. I think that was really an astute point. And I think one thing that didn't come from Ant, and I understand, given the extremes of the worlds that he's existed in, was that sense of vulnerability is what makes us human.
JAKE: I think he would say he’s not vulnerable, though, wouldn’t he?
DAMIAN: Yeah, yeah, very much. I think he would perceive vulnerability as a weakness as opposed to, um, part of our humanity. And whilst I liked his point about being searingly honest with people that don't match up and giving people that sense of strident feedback - you're not good enough, you need to get better - I also think there's something about doing that with an element of kindness and an empathy and a decency that Ant didn’t articulate. I'm not saying he doesn't do it, but he didn't articulate it.
JAKE: I bet he does do it actually, cos I think you've got to take people along for the ride, whether you're in a military setting or like he is now in a media setting. I, you know, people in my industry talk a lot. I've only ever heard good things about him as a person.
DAMIAN: Yeah.
JAKE: Interesting. He's a really charming, kind, friendly - which is almost at odds with that “Brrr, you’ve got to be like me. Do you know what I mean?
DAMIAN: Yes, yeah. And I think that from what you’re describing - how people speak about him gives you the evidence of the emotional intelligence that he says he possesses in abundance. I think he was giving us the performance bit as opposed to the human element of how you bring people with him.
JAKE: You know what? He's almost the perfect soldier, isn't he? When he talks about his mindset and everything that, everything he's been through, it's almost like this is how he is and he's tailored everything in his life to fit with the kind of person that he is. And my goodness, so successful now of clearly an incredible soldier. He was in the special forces for goodness sakes. And um, and he's learned his lessons along the way. Remarkable.
DAMIAN: Well, there's a lovely phrase Alex Ferguson uses. Erm, he used to say to the players in the dressing room of Manchester United – you should look to your left and right, and you should be really proud that those people are going into battle with you. And that phrase sort of resonated when I was thinking of Ant. I was thinking, you imagine being outside a door where you're about to walk into a firefight. I think you would get a sense of calm and reassurance that he was on your shoulder. And I think that’s probably the greatest testimony to that mindset that he's shared with us today.
JAKE: Wow, what a guy Ant Middleton is! If you enjoyed that, I'd love it if you could leave a review for us, and of course please subscribe to High Performance. I promise it’s worth it. Thanks so much to Tom Griffin from Rethink Audio for his help, our partner Lotus Cars, and do keep an eye across my socials for details of the next episode. Until then, thanks a lot.