Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer scored 126 goals in 366 appearances for Manchester United, but that doesn’t go nearly far enough in explaining his legacy at Old Trafford.
On the field, the Norwegian became an embodiment of the Reds’ never-say-die spirit in their most successful decade, often scoring late goals when points or trophies looked to have been lost. The most special of all being the Champions League final in 1999 cemented his place in Man Utd folklore. Since retiring as a player, Ole returned to his homeland in 2011 and spent three years with Molde before taking over at then Premier League side Cardiff City.
In December 2018, Ole received a call he just could not turn down - Manchester United. He was made permanent manager in March 2019 and is currently leading the team on an unbeaten run of 17 matches in all competitions.
TRANSCRIPT
JAKE: Good. So you've listened to the pod. What do you think?
OLE: Well, I like to listen to champions. I like to listen and know a little bit more about what makes winners tick, of course, and obviously being a Man United manager now - a previous player - I've always tried to make the most of my, my talents. Um, this is an opportunity for me to learn off some, some good ones.
JAKE: And I suppose it also leads to the fact that despite everything you've achieved as a player and as a manager, and the fact that you're now in charge of one of the biggest clubs in the world, you're someone that thinks you could still keep learning, still keep improving.
OLE: Yeah, I think so. I think everyone can learn all the time. And that's what I learned when I came here as a, as a player as well, uh, that players like David Beckham, Roy KJGeane, Paul Scholes, they always wanted to improve and be better. The day you think you're, you're the real deal, I think that's when you go downwards, and I'm always trying to improve myself and the club and the players.
JAKE: So we always start with the same question, which is, in your mind what is high performance?
OLE: Making the best out of the potential, in either you as an individual or us a team or the club as a whole. High performance is knowing when you, when you leave the door that you've done everything you can to stay at the top.
DAMIAN: Where did that lesson come from, Ole? I know your dad was a wrestling, uh, a successful wrestler.
OLE: Yeah, well he, he said so anyway.
DAMIAN: But how early did that lesson of getting everything out of your potential starts to drop with you?
OLE: Well, I think I've always been, uh, willing to learn, humble enough to, to try to improve. And I never thought about myself as one of the best, most talented ones. So I had to find other ways to make the most of my talent. And that stayed with me all the time I think during my time at Clausenengen, Molde, and then here at Man United, and then as a manager as well.
JAKE: So when you end up here at Manchester United as a player and you openly admit you didn't feel like you were one of the most talented ones, how do you have a mindset of not being overruled by the talent around you, and thinking to yourself, right, I'm going to take on the strikers around me as a challenge to be better?
OLE: It's a fine balance between being humble and being quietly confident, believing in yourself enough. I think I was a quietly confident guy, and then believing in my own abilities I knew I had an X factor of scoring goals. And that was my forte. But I’m also humble enough to try to learn from Andy Cole, Eric Cantona, Ryan Giggs, David Beckham – all the players got different attributes and qualities. And that's the secret to be confident enough to trust yourself all the time, but also humble enough to work hard. And that's instilled into us from, from early on, plus from Sir Alex.
DAMIAN: So when you arrived then from Norway, when you first came in to, what would have been The Cliff at the time, Ole, what was the biggest difference that struck you in those early days?
OLE: Well, for me, I just played with better players. I, that meant I got more opportunities to score goals. And yeah, of course they were better opponents as well. But early on in my life, I, I was quite good at imagining and living, living the life offside. So the goal I scored against Bayern Munich, for example, I had scored hundreds or maybe thousands of times before. On the field, back home, on my own, going through one-on-one imagining if I score now, if I hit the bottom corner, I win the Champions League or the European Cup, as it was called when I was young. I've always loved creating my own atmosphere and then testing myself. So when I came here, it's like, well, just do, do the things that you've always done, what you've learned, but do em a bit quicker. But my finishes were bottom corner. So Rena Taseyev who was the best keeper when I grew up, uh, he wouldn't even save my finishes, even when I was 15. That that's, that was my mindset – practise as it was a cup final.
DAMIAN: Was it like visualisation?
OLE: Yep.
DAMIAN: You know, like sports psychologists now talk about the importance of visualisation. Did anyone teach you that? Or was that just something you'd learn and then you kept to adopt it?
OLE: I think it was just in me. I was so keen and watching football, and I saw goals being scored. And I saw keepers making saves. And there's an opening there. And if you hit it top corner or bottom corner, he's got no chance. And I still believe that there's no such thing as a good save, it's just a bad finish.
JAKE: That’s a striker talking.
OLE: And yeah, but there's so many times, Sir Alex, and it used to bug me big time in training, that he shouted, “Hit the target, make the goalkeeper make a mistake” when I missed the target. But as soon as that ball left my foot, I knew if it's a good finish or about finish. And if it just hit the post and out, I knew that just a slight millimetre to the left or to the right on my boot would make that ball go in. So quietly in my mind, I said, shut up you, I know what I'm doing. And that that would go in on Saturday.
JAKE: You know what I like about that as well is that even at a young age, that’s you taking 100% responsibility for yourself. Cause I think all too often, let's take football as the, as the lesson here, young players will go, well, I did alright, but the goalkeeper was brilliant. Whereas in your head, you're saying if that goalkeeper saves it, I'm the one that's failed. I do love that you would, at that young age, you were taking full responsibility for yourself.
OLE: I truly believe that as well. That's uh, it was always done to me, that finish. And as I said before, my teammates were so much better. I created chances by my movement and I knew David Beckham is gonna put the cross in, and then I'm just ready to finish.
JAKE: And where did that come from? Did your parents instill in you, um, a mindset of being responsible for yourself.
OLE: Definitely. It's from, probably more from, my dad as he was an athlete himself. He always instilled into me that mindset of it's up to me. I can't have any excuses. I can't blame the coach. It's just yourself. And because there was one time and that's the only time I remember my dad looking a bit angry. I came home, I had a party, stayed up a little bit late and I just got home early in the morning to wake, get up to training and go straight to training. And he just had a little, with his cup of coffee, a little glance when I came in and said, “Do you think this is the way to become the top athlete?”. And that was, that's the one comment I remember that he really, like, “Um, he's right”.
JAKE: So what are you like now as a manager with your players that look for fault rather than take responsibility? How do you deal with that?
OLE: I don't want any blame culture here cause I think they all deep down know it's, it depends on them.
JAKE: How do you, how do you remove any blame culture? What's your process to that?
OLE: Well, quietly, cause they, they just gradually end up not playing and being out of the club. I'm not the ranter or a raver, and say, “If you don't effing change that…” I'm, like, quietly tick off behind me ear that, Okay, let's have a look, let's have a look next game. If he makes the same mistake again, or if he blames other people again… And in the end you just gradually wean them off.
JAKE: Well how does that sit, Damian, with the conversation we had with Sean earlier on? Where he said he makes sure he tells the players every single thing. Um, he's a, the England Rugby League manager. And he said, “I tell the players exactly what I want. Cause then if they don't give it to me, then I can get rid of them legitimately”.
DAMIAN: Well, I think that there's a, I think Ole’s making this distinction here between the technical and attitudinal responses. So I think what Sean was saying was, if the players make a technical mistake he takes accountability – “I've not coached them well enough”. If it's a case of they've not run back or they've not worked hard enough, that's on them, the responsibility.
OLE: Completely agree. That's a, that's a decision. That's a, that's an attitude. They, cause you can always make a decision to not run back. It's easy not to run back yet, but that's your decision and that's, that, we don't want those types of players. And if, if a player misses a chance or misses a penalty, of course they don't do that on purpose. I can't shout and rant if they do that, but I can prove my point if they keep on making decisions that go against our framework or principles or the way we want to play, style of play.
DAMIAN: So if can pick up on that. I remember you telling me a story years ago, when you, when you were the reserve team coach, and you’d spoken about Danny Welbeck, and one of the things that impressed you was that he would stay behind and help the coaches collect the balls in after shooting practice. So, you’d spoken about that indicated that he was a team player, he was thoughtful of other people. So what would you say are the behavioural factors you look for in people that you want to bring into your culture?
OLE: It's about respect. I think that respect is a big word for me. I think loyalty is a big word. So I expect them to not think about themselves too much like ‘me’ before the team. It’s always ‘the team’ before, uh, before ‘I’. Uh, the manager or Sir Alex always used to say there's no ‘i’ in team. But then you've got individual qualities in there that you don't want to take away. But that human quality of being a team player – that’s gotta, you have to have that. Yeah, you have to have it.
DAMIAN: And what else are you looking for?
OLE: People who want to learn. If you're humble enough to say, yeah, you're right, I can learn that. Listen to the coaches. Want to implement our principles in the way we want to play, our style. Because if we agree on one way of playing you can't just make your own decision on, “I want to play my own way”. That's completely going against the team. There's so many good talent out there, but if you have the good right human qualities and also be driven, you have to be driven. You have to be a winner. We haven't talked about winning yet. And you’d want winners in a team like Man Unite. I've been here now 18 months ish, and we have started, we have a foundation to build from. And now it's about we have the attitude is right, the work ethic is right. They're humble, they’re hard working. They want to learn. Now it's about getting to the next stage of learn how to win, but in a fair way, but we need to learn how to win. And when I say fair way, well, I've had one sending off and I was so told off by the gaffer. He absolutely slaughtered me in the dressing room and two weeks wages…
DAMIAN: Against Newcastle?
OLE: Yeah. And it's, I learned a lesson then that that's not the way we want to win at Man United. We don't do it that way.
JAKE: So when you've got a squad of players here who you've chosen, because they're good enough as footballers…
OLE: Yeah.
JAKE: How do you go about turning a bunch of good footballers into a bunch of good footballers who win?
OLE: To get as far as they have, they've got to have a bit of a, an edge and an ego in them. Because you don't get the top by just being a nice guy. The thing is that you want to see who… you test them. You see who's got that little bit of extra.
JAKE: How do you test them?
OLE: Well, we referee quite badly a few times and see how they react.
JAKE: Do you?
OLE: Yeah, of course, you do that on purpose because you want to see… You don't want defenders who are emotional. Because if they're too emotional they’ll cost you in a cup final, or they'll give a penalty away, or get sent off. And you want players who, on nil-nil or one-nil down, want to take the ball, and then do the bit that everyone else does when it's five-nil. Cause then everyone's confident and you’re confident. Give us the ball. Everyone's confident then, but when you're one-nil down and you're really struggling that's when you want the leaders to step up, and the winners to step up. But you have three, four of them who really take the level up, and we want them…
JAKE: Who would you say are your leaders - currently at Manchester United? Damian talks about cultural architects, the people that stamp the Ole Gunnar Solskjaer mark on the rest of the squad?
OLE: Well of course, I think you have had an example lately on Marcus Rashford. What kind of human being he is, but also a leader he is, by stepping forward. He stepped forward on the pitch and off the pitch. He steps forward, takes his first penalty for Man United ever, extra time, Champions League, PSG. He’s never had a penalty before. And he takes it and he scores and we're through. That's, Marcus is a leader. Of course, you've got Bruno who has come in and with the impact he's made he’s, he, you can see he's a leader because players follow it. They've seen – wow, he’s such, that, that was the little spark that we needed I feel, earlier on this season, from being a team that should have won games to now winning more games. And of course the captain Harry Maguire has been there six months and he’s captain of the club.
JAKE: And what did Bruno do? So, as someone that's come in, it's not easy is it to come in halfway through a season or to come in even in the summer transfer and had to come into a squad that's already formed. What did he do where the players immediately thought, right, this guy is one of the leaders?
OLE: He's got the talent of course. That's, you can see the quality is there. And we've seen that for a long time, but then again, he steps up when it matters. And he does it when it matters. He’s delivered crosses, he’s delivered assists, he’s scored goals, he’s took penalties. He's done everything in a short space of time that you'd expect…
JAKE: And off the field?
OLE: And off the field as well in training. And he demands off me. He demands off his teammates. And the first day he was in the club, he shook everyone's hand. He doesn't, he didn’t come in here thinking, “I'm the, I'm the big shot. I’m… you follow me”. No, he shook absolutely every staff members’ hand.
JAKE: And you noticed that?
OLE: And, of course, that's, this is a family – Man United - we've always been a family, and Sir Alex, the way he's created this atmosphere in this dressing, in this training ground, I think it’s unique.
DAMIAN: Two of the names you mentioned there, Ole - McGuire and Bruno - are people that you've recruited in. So what kind of homework do you get to do to make sure that they’re the right character as well as having the talent that is going to add to the family?
OLE: Well, obviously we got the chief Scouts that do all their scouting. We've got the analysis and do all the analysis and break it down to the minutest detail. But you can see that with your eye really, what talent and what quality you've got. Then you speak to teammates, that maybe play with them in a national team. So obviously Cristiano was an easy goal to me that I managed to get through, through Patrice to get hold of Cristiano and, uh, his recommendation, obviously stands him in good stead. In Norway it was easier for me. I knew more of them, most of them when I signed. And I knew the, maybe the agent, and I managed to, to maybe meet the parents or the boys, on the, on the sly. You're not allowed to, but sometimes you just meet. Then you, you speak. And I think for English internationals, for example, you speak to Marcus. What do you think of such and such teammate of yours? What do you, do you think he'll fit? Harry Maguire, for example, you follow him, you’ve watched his Instagram account, you watch Twitter, you watch what kind of personalities they are. Mick Feelin had him at xxx. And you go back to the scout that scouted him when it was 15, 16. Of course they'd spoken to them, and we just know more or less everything we need to know about the personality. Then, that's, you can't do that all the time. Sometimes you have to have, take the hunch. You watch him and you say, well, rainy day at Stoke, uh, he steps up, he's a winner. Or he picked up the ball and gave it to the player, or he's respectful when he, off the pitch he shakes everyone's hand or… Those little things. You’re looking at human qualities as well.
JAKE: I'm interested to know also what, what you say to those players about - this is before they signed, before they've seen the culture, seen their teammates - what's your message to them for the club that they're coming into? And I suppose it's quite an important moment for you because it's the very first chance you have, isn't it, to make a mark with these players.
OLE: First of all, it's like, I've got to manage for the club all the time. You've got to think the best for the club. But you've got to try to help this player. You’ve got to try to say, well, you've got a chance here to, uh, to make a career at the biggest club in the world. You could make history, and I want to be here to help you, but I can't do everything for you. You got to step up and do it yourself. But I've, I've changed, uh, quite a lot since I started managing 10 years ago now in Molde. I was more of a direct xxx like straight and down. This is the way it is, and, but gradually, you know, the millennials, we speak about it, the young kids now, they need a different way of managing and help, and sometimes being spoonfed… Um, it's a different, I have got players now just the age of my son. And it’s like, well, you could be my son, you. And it's like, you treat them a little bit differently. But you challenge them. You have to. They’ve got to do it themselves, even though how much I want to help them.
DAMIAN: So what would you say is the biggest single difference between when you first went into Molde and the manager you are today?
OLE: There's many differences. Of course, I was a very driven ambitious manager, I've been at Man United, I'm gonna come to Molde, I'm gonna win, I'm gonna get back to the Premier League. My dream is to manage Man United, and I’m just focused on that. And we do well in Molde. We win. That brought a few Man United staff with me. We bring a mini Man United over there. And he's like, this is easy, this. It’s like gradually... And then I get an offer and I jump on it, uh, with Cardiff. And that's a different learning curve for me. And ever since I finished at Cardiff, I've obviously looked back and evaluated myself and… but worlds changes quite a bit. So I went back to Molde again, and it was a different squad I went into, but I changed my ways. I was more, I got to know the players more. And as you speak, you, you create more relationship with the players. I think players nowadays need that more than maybe what I did, and the generation before me did.
DAMIAN: So after that Cardiff experience how did you process that? Because that's one of your first failures in your career.
OLE: I'm quite easy in that respect because then, well, I was that like a player as well. I did my best and that's all I can do. This is me. But then I realised after a while that this isn't me at Cardiff - cause that wasn't me. Uh, it was a challenge. I was too stubborn, maybe to, when I took the job – say I’ll manage this. I needed maybe different skill sets. And maybe I was, said I was open and honest, and my door was always open with the players, but maybe I was still a little bit too distant, and I couldn't, I didn't get that relationship that I wanted with the players. And in my last five years, I've been a different manager to be fair, and more relaxed, so much more relaxed. And say, well, I've, the worst thing that can happen is that you're allowed to move back to lovely Kristiansund with your family. (laughs)
JAKE: Do you think that there'll be people listening to this now who are in management positions and they've maybe made the same mistake as you where instead of just being themselves, they feel they have to play the role of a manager? And that’s the mistake you made.
OLE: I think so. I definitely, I loved going into work everyday at Cardiff - good people, and I absolutely loved it, but it just wasn't me. That situation it didn't suit me. And I think maybe they, you've, as you say, you get found out. Maybe I wasn't me, or I'm sure I wasn't me. Cause one, the style of play that we wanted to play didn't suit the players. So the style of play that I wanted, I couldn’t go through with it. I've been here for 15 years as a player – no, 11 as a player, and four as a coach, before I’ve come back now. And of course these years have moulded me in the way how I believe a team should be playing. It was miles easier walking in here to bring my (call it) philosophy. I don't, principals, I don't like all these words. I just want the players to go out there and express themselves within the framework, in a positive manner cause you want to dominate. You want to dominate when you’re Man United, you want to be the team that's got the ball.
DAMIAN: I was going to ask you, Ole, like, how important was that apprenticeship you did that when you finished as a player, and then you worked with Bob and Joyce, and you also had Sir Alex mentoring you. How important was that in your development?
OLE: It was fantastic. And Warren was a fantastic partner for me. Cause he had had a completely different upbringing in the English league system. So he'd played more games in the lower league. I was, I was used to winning every year. I was used to having xxx and Ronny Johnsen at the back, uh, playing 2v2 all the time. And so tactically, I realized that, well, you need to set your team up differently here than to what, what it was like with Sir Alex was. When you got xxx and Ronny Johnsen, you can play 2v2 because they’ve got pace and strength. And now you need to organize your team. So I learned to organize the team, uh, much more with, uh, with Warren.
JAKE: And all of these moments of learning and successes and failures and relationships you built along the way, led you to getting the Manchester United job. So people that are listening to this who have big things come along in their lives and they don't sit comfortably with them because it just overawes them a bit, how did you cope mentally when you got the phone call to say, first of all you're coming in on a temporary basis and then that's it, you are the Manchester United boss? How do you deal with the sudden expectation and the kind of explosion that it creates in your life?
OLE: No problem. No, absolutely no problem. I've had the best manager in the world, how to deal with all the circumstances, how to deal with the expectations of this club. And when you were a player here, I was, I didn't get it as much as say Eric Cantona, David Beckham, Ryan Giggs, all the superstars that we had. But the media attention, you just have to learn how not to pay too much attention to it and just do your best. Cause that's, they've asked you to do the job because of your qualities. And that's, I trusted myself to, to bring my good qualities into the team that was here. Obviously I was only here for six months to be fair. And it's easier then to come in and say, okay, I'm going to enjoy this. I'm going to do my…
JAKE: Did that feel quite pressure free because it was short term initially?
OLE: Yep, I'm gonna be me, I’m gonna make the players enjoy playing football, create an environment that they want to come into every single day. That's key for me now. You have to have an environment which is enjoyable, but challenging. They've got to want to come in the next day and say, I liked, I like to come into work. We talk about leaders. We talked about leaders before. Paul Pogba - he's an unbelievable leader, both on the pitch and off the pitch. And he steps up, with his world-class qualities as a player, but also as a leader. He, I spent a lot of time with Paul because I had him in the reserves as well, and we knew each other, and it was easy to, to just rekindle that relationship really. And he enjoyed it.
JAKE: How do you help your players to deal with that outside scrutiny and pressure? Because I look at someone like Paul Pogba, and as you say, a world class footballer - he's won a World Cup - yet, still persistent questions across the media, right? That must surely have an impact on people's mental wellbeing and therefore their performance on a football field. I'm just interested in how you deal with that side. Do you talk to your players about that sort of stuff? Have a very sort of open dialogue with them?
OLE: Yeah, definitely. I think one is the individual chats you have with them. Of course you have, everyone's different and everyone's got different challenges in life. We've all got, there's more, we could probably sit here for hours and hours talking about what happens off the pitch, that you're not allowed to know, which I obviously don't want to share with people, but there's so much more to, to a footballer than just what happens on the pitch, and they’re human beings. And you, but I try to make him understand that yes we play for our fans, Man United fans, but don't pay attention to social media and media when the more loud ones normally are just, they just want to criticise you for, uh, for anything. So we, we, speak to them about how to handle that and manage that both as a group and as individuals. Cause what matters when you walk on, step on, to that pitch, it's your teammates, it's your fans, it's what the managers and coaches, what we want. If you, if you’ve done your absolute best, don't worry about anything else. You know that you've, you've done what we've asked.
JAKE: Cause I often use the phrase that criticism is the enemy of creativity. And in that moment you've got a footballer about to do something amazing. And all it takes is that slight seed of doubt in his head to think, well, I've got so much criticism this week. I'm not sure I'm willing to put myself out there.
OLE: Well, that's one way of looking at it. Then you've got the Michael Jordan way, or my way, cause whenever the manager put me out of a team that just gave me more energy to show him when he put me on. I want to show you that I should be playing more.
JAKE: So you feed off …
OLE: Yeah, you feed off…
JAKE: …feed off negativity.
OLE: I'd rather have you lot criticise me all day long than praise me. I think it's easier if you get praised all the time to just rest a little bit on your laurels.
DAMIAN: It seduces you almost.
OLE: Oh yeah, sometimes I think, yeah, you might believe it. You might just deep down you think I could have done better, I should have done better, but everyone thinks I'm great. So yeah, I'm probably great.
DAMIAN: One of the things that we’ve spoken about on this podcast has been, um, we've seen a lot of high performers talk about having this role of a memento mori, somebody that reminds them of their fallibility or their mistakes. Who is it that when they give you feedback, you sit up and pay attention and really listen to them? Who does that for you?
OLE: I have to say I've had some fantastic support from Sir Alex and uh, in, in the hard times that we've gone through here, when you lose the game at Man United it is a crisis. And through the difficult periods, he's been a very, very good support to me. We keep texting each other, he rings me. Ed has been, the club has, they’ve been very supportive as well. And that's, we went into this with a plan as well, which everyone, well, I put my - how do you say? - my ideas across, and say, this is not an easy fix because I felt quite a bit had to be done.
JAKE: Could you share with us what you felt needed to change?
OLE: No, well not really, but then of course, it's, it's just those little, those things that you've, if you, if you want to give me the job, this is how I'd like to do it. But you have to understand, it might take some time. It might mean that we were not gonna challenge for the Premier League, or it will mean we're not gonna challenge for the Premier League in 2020. But we might be able to win the Europa League or FA Cup. But we'll challenge for top four still. Cause we’ve got quality, but it's, I need time to get this done. Of course there is always demands on that you need to perform. You need to win. We've spoken about development and improvement and the culture, but winning at Man United is important. There's no chance I can rest on the laurels and say, well, tenth is fine because we have a three year plan. That's, that's completely, you can't do that. You have to always push the limits.
DAMIAN: Everyone that we've spoken to that has sustained success has always spoken about, it isn't a linear straight-line journey. That there will be set backs, there’ll be difficulties, and this art of patience seems to be a consistent theme, that you need to give somebody time to get through that messy middle bit when setbacks happen. So how do you get people to see that bigger picture and be patient to get through the messy middle before success starts to …?
OLE: Well, it's important that you have open and honest conversations then, on this is the way, and that that's probably, uh, what people might, uh, like about me as well, and this is the way I see it. This is the way I’d like to do it. Cause, um, I've become so much more relaxed and say, there's, we spoke about it before, that you have to be yourself. And I, I just, this is what I believe. This is what I think should be done. If you've got belief in that, this is the way I will try to do with the staff I've got, because it's, I trust you, me, we are a staff that always will have the club Manchester United ahead of anything else. I've managed Man United so I’ve reached my dream. But, um, of course my dream is to win the Premier League and Champions League with Man United. And I always want to be better. Um, the only way I can do it is just to do it my way and do it to the best of my abilities. And I promise you, as long as I'm in the job, I'll do this to the best of my ability. I trust my staff, to have Michael Carrick, Kieran McKenna, Mike Phelan, Rich Hartis who was with me with, in reserves; physios, John and Richard, they were in me, with me in the reserves. There's so many… the kit man, he was with me when I was in the reserves. It's like a Man United, our identity and DNA, we’re just gonna do it the way we think is right for Man United.
JAKE: When you first came into the club and you had a plan of where you were going to take them, where are you now on that journey, do you think?
OLE: Well, we've just got back playing after a horrendous three month layoff with a, with a situation that everyone's been through with a, with a virus and we just at the moment that the lockdown started we were really in the momentum. We had 11 games I think, undefeated. And you want to just to keep that run going. And now, who knows where we are, cause who knows what will happen with team performances after such layoff. But then again, the players, the staff, they worked really hard over the lockdown. Yeah. And not just hard - smart and clever as well. It's like, you have your breather mentally, but look after yourself physically so the coaching staff, the fitness staff, they've been looking after the players and… but the unknown was difficult. When are we going to come back? When are we going to start really training hard to be fit? Or if we start too early, you might be tired when we start. So it's been a difficult situation, but I think we've found the golden middle highway that I think we've, we’re just about where we are, we should be.
DAMIAN: So can I ask you about, you used that phrase about that DNA of a winning culture? What would you say are the other three non-negotiable behaviours of the winning culture that you experienced as a player and that you're now seeking to re-embed as a, as a manager?
OLE: Trust, loyalty, commitment to the team. That's a, is that one word?
JAKE: That could be one. You can have that as one.
OLE: You have to be a team member. You have to, for me that’s be all, end all really. If you want to go your own way, it doesn't matter how great you are. If you don't want to give your qualities to the team, we’ll just have to find another club for you or you have to find another way. So for me, that is, that loyalty is vital, and the trust. I know I can trust the staff and the players more or less as well with, with my life. Cause they, they want the same as us. Uh, keep the standards high. You just gotta keep challenging yourself all the time. Cause that accountability, if a player lets the teammates down, I want the team, the players as well, to make that player accountable. Uh, cause it's, it's only not himself he’s letting down. He’s letting the whole team down. Um, but it's all about team really for me, uh, family.
JAKE: You very much go back to this team thing don’t you? How much do you see yourself as being on a level with your players? And how important is it as their leader, as their manager, that you, you maintain some distance?
OLE: No, well, I’m, obviously I’m the one who makes the decisions and uh, will, will suffer when we, uh, if we, lose and get the criticism, which I don't mind cause you are the one that made the most difficult decisions. And the players and the coaching and staff, they know that I rate their opinions, I really, really think it's, uh, vital that everyone in my staff feel comfortable of raising their opinions to me. I respect their opinion, but then you respect my decision as well. And that's, I like that way of managing and making decisions. Players as well, I think they know that I want the best for them, but that the team is the most important. When I was at Molde, for example, it's a different, different job, I know. But one of my jobs there I felt was to give those players a chance to have a career like I have had as a player. So I want you to go from Molde to bigger club in Europe, and I'm going to help you, I'm going to tell you exactly what you need to do to prepare you for that job. So you've got to just trust me on that because I've been through it. Here is, is younger lads, but there's such, at such a higher level. I still want the best for them, but I have to make decisions for the club. And I think the players respect and understand that.
DAMIAN: So if there was one, one piece of advice you could give a young player that was here at the club who was maybe on the cusp of making the transition to join your, your first team, what would the one thing you would want them to know or do or understand?
OLE: Work harder than you've ever done to reach your, uh, your goals. You've come so far now. And I'm sure you’ve dreamt of playing at the highest level. You're so close, and don't feel that you’ve made it. Make sure that you always want to learn and develop. I still, I had René Meulensteen as a coach in the first team when I was 30, and I still learnt things of him that I've taken into my coaching career, but also to the last few years of my career, I felt I learned of him. You’re never, ever, ever the finished article as a player. You've got players now, Paul Pogba, Bruno, Marcus Rashford, Anthony - they, they all want to learn. Cristiano, for example, best player in the world, but he always wanted to learn and improve. It's still got that in him, like, well, Giggsy, he’d suddenly find a new way of playing football when it was a centre mid-fielder at the age of 40. So you've always got a chance to better yourself.
JAKE: There's no substitute for hard work in this club, right?
OLE: No, it's, the gaffer used to say all the time. He, we were like, uh, all the managers used to tell him that we were like a fourth division team, just with quality players, cause we ran and we ran and we run and we worked hard. And the two like wide men, the full bikes, you know, the graveyard shift that we used to talk about, it's just relentless. But that's the way, that's the only way at Man United. A Man United team should never be outworked. I said that early on in one of my press conferences that we should never be outworked, and Mick Phelan said to said to me, you know, you'll always be remembered for that. You know, you, you, you you've said that. So now you can't let any team be fitter than us. So that we were working towards being the fittest team in the league.
DAMIAN: But how much of that, were you even consciously aware that that goes right the way back to Sir Matt Busby talking about that, that was almost like the prerequisite for the people that worked in the factories and the, and the local businesses? They came and they wanted to see the Manchester United team work hard and then put talent on top of it.
OLE: Of course I know the history of the club. And I know Sir Matt, and I know Sir Alex, and I know how much… and the quote Sir Matt said, “Well we have got people here in Manchester working their socks off to be able to go and enjoy Saturday at Old Trafford, seeing their heroes, but also being entertained. Cause you need to, as a Man United player you also need that X factor. You need that skill, but you're always deep down, you've got to have that humility about you and be working hard. If not, our fans won't have you. That's one of the things I say to my players as well when we sign them, that you've got to work hard here because our fans they love a hard working player. They love a tackle from a, so Jesse and Marcus, local lads who just goes and they down chase down the opposition. First five minutes, you get a tackle in the, in their box, for example, our fans love that. And they deserve to see it. We are Man United, and that's, you just gradually you just, it takes over your, uh, your life.
JAKE: One of the things that really intrigues me about managing a club like Manchester United is, we've spoken a lot about the team, and the team has won, and the work ethic, and what you need to be a Manchester United player. Your job, one of the tricky parts of your job, I guess, is balancing with that, the fact that you need flair. And you need players that bring that individual little bit of brilliance. So what is the trick to allowing those players to flourish and grow and be a superstar here, but at the same time work for the team and everyone moves in the same direction?
OLE: When you are part of a successful team, you do that work no matter what, but your quality will make you win. How do you do it? You just, you always encourage them to express themselves, be themselves, be like we talked about. What's unique about you? Man United have signed you. You must have an X factor. You must have uniqueness. It is your pace? Is it your free kick? Is it your dribble? Is it your work rate? Is it, uh, finishing? Yeah, that was my quality. That was the one X factor that I felt that I made a difference with that. How can you make a difference? Everyone would sacrifice yourself and you work hard for the team if you know at the end, you've got that trophy. You lift that Champions League trophy, or premier league. So hopefully we can, that's what we're working towards.
JAKE: I remember Martin Keown telling me that when he was at Arsenal, Arsene Wenger used to pull him aside on match day and say, “Listen, against this opposition you’re the single most important player for us. Okay? You've got to have a good day”. And Martin would spend the rest of the pre-match and the game thinking, “Arsene’s told me that I'm the main man”. He said, it's only after he retired and they all used to get together, have a drink... (laughs). He’d be, like, hold on, he said that to me.
OLE: But that's a trick of a good manager as well. And you know, that's Sir Alex, Arsene, most of them will have that little xxx. Um, so, so important for, uh, for them. And, now, it's uh, when you’re winning it’s all worth it.
JAKE: Look, we always finish with some quick fire questions.
OLE: Okay.
JAKE: So here we go. First of all, your three non-negotiable behaviours that everyone around you here at Manchester United needs to buy into?
OLE: Trust. Do your best. And respect, xxx respect, others.
JAKE: Very good.
OLE: What advice would you give a teenage Ole just starting out?
OLE: Do the same again. (laughs) If not, I wouldn’t sit there would I? So every little decision, just make the same decisions.
JAKE: How did you react to your greatest failure?
OLE: Spurred me on to do something about it and learn from it.
JAKE: Do you have, do you have a comfortable relationship with failure because I'm a firm believer that you need to fail in life to move forwards, to learn, fail forwards, fail early…
OLE: Definitely. No problem with failing. Absolutely no problem at all. Cause as long as you know that you meant well and your decisions were good ones, but it turned out wrong.
JAKE: How do you sort of get there though? Because there'll be people listening to this that struggle with it. Maybe even your own children, you spend time speaking to them about the fact that, you know, it's okay to fail. I think that quite often as parents we spend all our time trying to make sure our kids never fail at anything.
OLE: No.
JAKE: It’s not a great lesson for life.
OLE: I don't mind them failing as long as they've done their best. That's the main message for me - to the players here as well. You know that all your decisions will have consequences.
DAMIAN: How important is legacy to you?
OLE: I know that I'm just going to do my best anyway. And I hope obviously there's a good legacy to be a, to be left. But as long as I know I've been true to my values, true to my club's values, and made decisions I believe were right. Well, so be it, as long as my employers and my family, and my players know that I've made the decisions for the right reasons, that's fine.
JAKE: And the final one of our quick fire questions is, “Are you happy?”
OLE: Yeah.
JAKE: Nice quick answer to that one.
OLE: Yeah. Well, if you can't be happy with what I've got now, then I'll never be happy.
JAKE: It's not bad is it? Well look, thank you so much for inviting us to what is a remarkable training ground.
OLE: Fantastic view, isn't it?
JAKE: Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure to, you know, sit here and talk about your time at Manchester United, and really interestingly the little tricks and the tips and the, the approach you've taken to running one of the greatest clubs in the world. Second only to Norwich City.
OLE: Been a pleasure to talk to yous.